Homosexuality and Modern Life v.3

Verilidaine · **Posted:** Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:05 pm

Ephemeralis wrote:

I wasn't really surprised at the outcry my post caused - I was expecting it really.

I make a line referencing to a religion I follow. Twice, and you immediately draw the 'ignorant, petty minded fool' card. I'm merely stating the facts - in a society predominately religious, and that almost every functioning religion in the world today has homosexuality down listed as a sin or some form of abhorrence/abomination, seeking acceptance within such a society is an utter waste of time and should be clearly evident to many of you that regardless of what is achieved in some lone sector of the world, homosexuality will never be truly accepted within modern society both for many reasons. It may be accepted by the state at some point in time, but it will never be truly accepted by the majority of the populace. It's pointless to try.

I also never made any reference to homosexuality promoting a flat out physical bonus to carrying STDs. It should have been blatantly obvious that I was intending a reference to promiscuity. It should also be obvious just how detrimental such behavior is to mankind as a whole. With every person affected by the disease, there's a chance it could mutate into something much more virulent or even switch it from contagious to infectious, in which case - bye bye large portion of the human race. In this case, it's just a chance - but I think there's enough variables that could snap and cause the demise at the expense of the human race right now, yet another one caused by ourselves isn't really helpful.

There's a myriad of reasons why it's widely viewed as wrong. I don't really care what anybody does in their spare time. My religion condemns it, I do not. Never would I condone of homosexuals being executed or treated unfairly in the justice system. I would stand beside you in protest and take up arms for the cause if need be. I'm not downright attacking you, I'm just placing out the points to demonstrate that I disagree with the lifestyle for various reasons and that I even further disagree with the resources being consumed by the entire process. Check back with me when people aren't starving to death every few seconds in other countries, and we'll talk.

Props for not being hateful and angry.

"...in a society predominately religious, and that almost every functioning religion in the world today has homosexuality down listed as a sin or some form of abhorrence/abomination, seeking acceptance within such a society is an utter waste of time..."

I don't know what the stats are, but I don't feel as though (my, at least) society is predominantly religious. And by religious I mean truly religious...not the Christmas and Easter Christians (I assume you mean Christianity). Second...I don't think that it's ever a waste of time to seek acceptance for anything, or nothing would ever change.

"Check back with me when people aren't starving to death every few seconds in other countries, and we'll talk."

There are too many problems in the world right now for everyone to care about every single one. Yes, there is starvation, yes, there is war, and trauma, and global warming and animal abuse and not enough funding for the arts. Everyone chooses their thing, their passion, and that's what they spend their time fighting for. And that's good, because that way, everything gets thought about, and it would be impossible to get everyone caring about only the huge things, because it's all relative. What may mean the world to someone could make someone else care less...are they supposed to just not care about anything at all? Maybe this is the selfish way to look at it, but I'm going to do what I want and fight for what matters the most to me in this life. Yeah, I'll donate money to a fund for hunger relief, but I'm not going to fly out and distribute rice, because it's not that important to me. I shouldn't have to suffer guilt for caring more about gay rights instead of world hunger.

Graham · **Posted:** Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:07 pm

Quote:

It should also be obvious just how detrimental such behavior is to mankind as a whole. With every person affected by the disease, there's a chance it could mutate into something much more virulent or even switch it from contagious to infectious, in which case - bye bye large portion of the human race.

I will say this again. You are trying to use science as part of your reason to justify why homosexuality is a bad thing. And anybody with a basic understanding of biology and anatomy would laugh at you if you tried to tell them what you just posted here.

First off, define "the disease". Do you mean HIV/AIDS? Because that's a virus. You almost sound like you're trying to blame gays for a potential world catastrophe because they like having sex. It's so ridiculous it's hard to not think you might just be joking here. The HIV virus will never mutate in anything more virulent because if it had the capability it would have done so already. It is not a general mutagen, it's a very specific one that's only purpose and capability is the ultimate destruction of the human pathogen defense system, it mutates to accomplish that goal and defeat potential antibodies, and nothing more.

I'm with Fast here. People like you really don't usually warrant my time. But I'm trying to educate you here. In places like Japan and most of the middle east and a lot of Europe, homosexuality is already completely publicly accepted. And those communities didn't even have to try. The only reason it's not completely accepted in America yet is Christianity. Only reason.

Your information is so completely off the wall, incorrect, biased and largely bigoted that I really am trying to figure out if you're just making an elaborate prank or if you're at the extreme end of the scale of zealotry and vainly trying to use science as justification.

Verilidaine · **Posted:** Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:13 pm

(Play nice, kids...it'd be awesome if we got a homosexuality thread to 100 pages)

Keldoth Wolfram Dekel · **Posted:** Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:55 pm

Honestly, I think it would be best for this threads life if we just stopped listening to this kid.

Graham · **Posted:** Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:11 pm

Keldoth Wolfram Dekel wrote:

Honestly, I think it would be best for this threads life if we just stopped listening to this kid.

Bingo.

Yash · **Joined:** Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:52 pm **Posts:** 1122

While this thread is not going to be locked at the moment, it is rapidly heading in that direction.

If the direct insults and general negativity continue, the thread will not. If you disagree with someone, remain civil.

Ephemeralis · **Joined:** Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:30 am **Posts:** 5

FastChapter wrote:

You may note I quoted the above post. You may also note, I didn't waste my time to read it.

People who devote their time to hating people do not deserve to have my time wasted on them.

Again. If the only reason you came to the forum was to show how much you hate half of us, then leave.

I'm slightly disappointed.

Just because I push forward a point you don't agree with, doesn't give you valid cause to dismiss what I say as wrong. If you had actually read my post, you would see that I do not hate homosexuals at all. I disagree with your lifestyle, but in no way do I hate or wish any of you dead. That is plain wrong no matter what the situation. Hate solves nothing. Neither does ignorance.

Graham: You can tell me that I'm wrong when you can faithfully and accurately predict every cell division occuring on this planet every nanosecond. Until then, you have no basis to say that the HIV virus will not mutate. The argument 'it would have done it already if it could' is a tad childish and demonstrates your lack of knowledge in such a field.

A large number of you appear to be searching for an ulterior motive behind my posts. There is none. I am simply saying what I think. I am not trying to instill hatred. I read a fair portion of this thread in my spare time and decided I'd register and put my two cents in, since this is a discussion about such a thing. I was expecting mild discontent with some of my ideals and was greeted accordingly - but this is far beyond the scope of what I imagined.

It really saddens me when disagreement turns to hatred. I thought this forum might actually be a bit different from the rest. Turns out I was wrong.

You are not wrong. A few users do not represent the entire forum. For someone who seems to be as well-informed as you are, I find it strange that you jumped to such a conclusion over only a few members of this forum who were barely acting within the forum's rules. ~Yash

Tuna · **Posted:** Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:15 pm

Uhm...

The HIV virus has actually mutated many, many times...that's the main reason it has been impossible to really cure so far...
The effectiveness of the modern medicines used to treat it fairly successfully nowadays is due primarily to the fact that they are effective over a wide range...

As for religions decrying homosexuality, that is mostly true...all Western religions and Middle-eastern ones are quite against it (aside from some "modern" sects), and this trend continues right until you reach the religions of India and parts east...
For the most part, they take from a "sex is not really our focus, so it really isn't a question" to a more "do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone" kind of approach...
It really displays rather vividly how different the philosophical and religious approaches are between the East and the West...it's really interesting...
:3

...and try not to confuse "hatred" with simple "passion"...there are some here who are quite passionate about their lifestyles (which tends to happen when one is constantly forced to defend it), and while your words are rational and generally nonagressive, anyone with half a wit and the ability to read between the lines might disagree...

But I digress...

Considering that this is both a political and a religious thread, it is a genuine miracle that it has advanced this far without bloodshed...and for that, I give everyone here great credit and honor their restraint...
[hops down from soapbox]
;3

Luca Fox · **Posted:** Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:16 pm

I feel I should mention that animals who carry on homosexual acts don't do it for the same reasons people do. It's often a dominance thing. Additionally, I read a study one time that concluded that male sheep who do the nasty with other male sheep actually had broken brains. Therefore, the argument 'animals do it too' is null. And uh, don't go trying to take my post out of context by trying to say I'm saying gay people have broken brains, because I'm not.

FastChapter · **Posted:** Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:36 pm

Quote:

I'm slightly disappointed.

Just because I push forward a point you don't agree with, doesn't give you valid cause to dismiss what I say as wrong. If you had actually read my post, you would see that I do not hate homosexuals at all. I disagree with your lifestyle, but in no way do I hate or wish any of you dead. That is plain wrong no matter what the situation. Hate solves nothing. Neither does ignorance.

Then you have my apologies. You have to understand that earlier this year, we had a member of the forum use the same argument you did, though much more hatefully. He pushed to the point where the thread was locked and, surprise, I nearly got my arse booted off the forum. Granted, I was a newbie back then too, but that's why the folks - primarily myself - acted so defensively.

That you disagree with my lifestyle, I can respect that. We're all entitled to our beliefs, and there's nothing wrong with differing views. It's a matter of whether or not hate is coming with the territory, which thankfully in your case it isn't. I'm sorry for jumping your bones on your first post, there, but I'm glad you cleared things up. ;)

Ephemeralis · **Joined:** Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:30 am **Posts:** 5

Indeed, most of this kerfuffle is over my inability to explain myself properly the first time.

I'm glad this is sorted out though, it would be terrible if such a long running thread got locked over this :<

Graham · **Posted:** Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:56 pm

Quote:

Until then, you have no basis to say that the HIV virus will not mutate. The argument 'it would have done it already if it could' is a tad childish and demonstrates your lack of knowledge in such a field.

It just so happens one of my courses right now is intro to microbiology. No basis? Read any medical journal with HIV or AIDS as subject and tell me I have no basis. I was a Ranger who went through the Army NBC (B stands for biological) School in Fort Leonard Wood in '06. I know what I'm talking about. The RNA the virus injects into host cells is the basis around what the HIV/AIDS virus mutates to protect, it does not mutate to create different RNA and become a different strand. Diseases and ricksettia mutate to form new strands, a few rare viruses do but not HIV/AIDS.

Please do some research before telling me I'm wrong. If it was a general mutagenic virus it would have mutated and produced different strands a long time ago, like all general mutagenic viruses do. HIV/AIDS only mutates to accomplish it's goal and not to create new ones.

I'm open to anything else you have to say about how I don't have any basis on this.

*Edit*

I certainly hope you don't think I hate you. I disagree with you and have pretty clear, commonly available data which proves much of what you say wrong, but hate doesn't enter the equation. I need to know someone to hate them.

FastChapter · **Posted:** Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:02 pm

No worries, if that happened we'd probably just kill you... XD

Regarding religion being used as a primary reason folks don't agree with homosexuality, I guess I've stopped getting too riled up about it. There are so many people out there who cherry pick what they do/don't believe in the Bible/Koran/Torah that it's really tough to pin an entire belief system on the problems we face with our civil rights. I've conceded that if a religious group doesn't feel their beliefs should allow a marriage in their church/synagogue/mosque (I like using slashes), I can't do anything to force them to change their minds that wouldn't be detrimental to both of us. I do hope that at some point, they start allowing gay marriages, but that's not my decision to make.

What bothers me is that people are voting against civil unions with their religious beliefs in tow. Thankfully, more and more people are voting for civil unions since they're uninvolved with church ceremonies, but there are still enough out there that keep the ban/overturn results see-sawing. It's quickly turning in favor of gay couples, which rocks, but it's sad it's taken so long to get there.

Everybody is entitled to do what they want, so long as they aren't deliberately hurting someone in the process. I think in regards to the spread of disease you mentioned earlier, that's really a matter of personal responsibility for all sexualities. There are several companies, including Trojan, that make tear- and slip-resistant condoms for the purpose of anal sex.

And for those who choose not to use condoms, there's no reason for them not to go to the hospital for a normal physical, and have your blood drawn for AIDs and STDs. That's covered by all insurance companies. I got tested when I turned 18, and twice more since. People of all sexualities need to take it upon themselves to get tested, and to tell their partners about any diseases they may be able to transmit without protection. Sexuality doesn't come into play in that area.

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