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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:01 am 
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The Inkwell Coyote
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It may be several weeks until said fight occurs, but heck, I want to see those two throw down. The comic needs some rage-infused action to mix up the dullness that's been occurring since they landed on Gilligan's Isle.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:31 am 
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Verilidaine wrote:
avwolf wrote:
Verilidaine wrote:
I dunno, I think that the pronoun usage for Natani became more defensible after the revealing of the link. Before, theories were things like, "Natani had to pose as male to get into the Brotherhood, and then got confused and thought she was a guy after too long!" The link, however, is something permanent (man, now it's totally not going to be, just watch).

It's not the what the link did that makes me wonder about pronoun usage. Looking only at that, yeah, it would make it very defensible. I dunno, I guess it's her language usage that bothers me. It feels very weak to me. Like there's still a shadow of doubt about how "irreversable" the effects were or how completely removed her old gender conception was. I imagine the doubt is largely as I've written it -- self-doubt and questions as to if she is the person she believes herself to be, thanks largely to her feelings for Keith. Before she was so insistent that she was really a guy, and now it seems like she's willing to admit that it's merely a part of her brother that flowed into her after she was mind wiped by an evil mage.


Ahh. I see what you're going at, now. I just went back and reread that entire sequence and you're right, the language is weak at points. The part I found the most compelling for your argument is how Natani refers to the male gender as being Zen's, rather than talking about it in a possessive way. The story itself focuses most on the change from male to female (which is why I suspect it was in the comic in the first place, of course) and the effects. Instead of it being a casual explanation as something that Natani has accepted in life and moved on from, it's very dramatic, which you wouldn't expect from a storytelling to Keith, because Keith has already seen Natani naked, and is fully aware of the current situation. There's nothing to lose in telling him, unless it's a story that is still somehow very personal and painful, as it would be if Natani is (and has always) had doubts about the entire thing.

*cracks her knuckles* See, I'm getting the hang of this again. Man but it's good to be back here, hope I can manage to stick around for a while ^^
I should point out that this is a comic and the drama is necessary or it wouldn't hold anyone's interest. Also, I doubt that Tom had all of the above statements in mind when he wrote the dialog, so all of your evidence may be purely coincidental. Though it's impossible to be certain without getting inside Tom's head or knowing his intent when he wrote that.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:40 am 
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Schrodinger wrote:
I should point out that this is a comic and the drama is necessary or it wouldn't hold anyone's interest. Also, I doubt that Tom had all of the above statements in mind when he wrote the dialog, so all of your evidence may be purely coincidental. Though it's impossible to be certain without getting inside Tom's head or knowing his intent when he wrote that.


Yes, but that is the very, very beautiful thing about art. The artist creates it, draws it, writes it, whatever, and is really nothing more than the means that the story is using to get told. It's up to readers to analyze it, decipher it, and find meaning in it. That's not to say that the authors don't have what they want in mind and they don't control the story, but, stories have a way of taking on their own lives. A detail an author found inconsequential might add a whole new level of character depth to readers.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:08 am 
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So, So true. I wonder how many times Tom has said, "Wow! The fans really put some thought in this!"


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:57 pm 
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I'm sure there's some stuff Tom wishes fans would stop putting so much thought into.

*cough Flora being pregnant or not cough*


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:40 pm 
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GordonFreeman wrote:
I'm sure there's some stuff Tom wishes fans would stop putting so much thought into.

*cough Flora being pregnant or not cough*


Image


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:40 pm 
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GordonFreeman wrote:

Your theory sounds cool enough, but I contest your idea of female Basitins treated as merely soldier breeders. In this and this comic, you will notice that the female Basitin that Natani talks to is wearing armor and clothing extremely similar to the guard Keith fights. I don't know how you would treat your breeding stock, but usually people do not spend useful resources garbing them in armor similar to their own citizens. That is generally considered "a waste of money". In this comic, Keith states the reason for the separation of sexes based on breeding efficiency and organization. Though this seems a rationalization based on an underlying doctrine of female oppression, it can also be seen as a general population oppression. A sort of government eugenics plan, giving the leaders control over the offspring produced, shaping them to fit into the warrior mold. (Whoops, I seem to be supporting your point there.)

What I'm trying to get at is that although the Basitins have a suppressive, militaristic dictatorship focused on creating and maintaining a superior fighting force, I don't see evidence of them being sexist about it.

Also, just for the sake of it, can you point out where you saw evidence of Basitin warriors "drugged up"?

Lastly, because I'm a pedantic, nit-picking prick, I wanted to mention that FireFox has a wonderful built-in spellchecker.


I don't have firefox and too lazy to copy-paste it in word. Mosty becuase I like to belive all cultures have a drak side. Humans are bigots and enslave the other two (which is weird since the're Feudal and wouldn't need slave since that's what Peasants are for) Kendiens raid human villages and eat people, and Basitins are a harsh dictatorship.


Like I said it's just my theory. Well the drug part is just becuase most armies throughout history has used combalt drugs, starting with the Greeks with Opium, and other things it's a good way to keep the rank and file in line and march for days.

And for the rest, we DO only see ONE port town, and I'm going to call they have a few other islands and cities. And a good dystopian is one at looks like an utopia. The breeding isn't that effective: now if they breed twice a year(the summer/winter solstice) give or take that means the female population is always with child, now without any preditors and we know they're immue to most poisons and maybe most Diseases so... unless they have a short lifespan which I dought it I don't think they really need that many kids. Plus living on a lsland would lead to massive oer popultion so send the to there deaths. And that female was only wearing a helmit and like I saw befor it's all just for show wend they trade with others (since as an island nation they would lack the resources needed).


Well that's my two cents, want any more of my crazy over thinging?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:55 pm 
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dante715 wrote:
...and like I saw befor it's all just for show wend they trade with others (since as an island nation they would lack the resources needed).


I don't want to reply to the whole post, but as for the trading, I don't think that's necessarily true. There are plenty of island nations that have developed without trading with the rest of the world (say, Japan), and the Basitin islands in the most recent map seem to be big enough for them to find all their own resources.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:53 pm 
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[quote="Verilidaine"]
I don't want to reply to the whole post, but as for the trading, I don't think that's necessarily true. There are plenty of island nations that have developed without trading with the rest of the world (say, Japan),quote]

No, the world does not work that way, Japan was not developed unless you count being in the middle ages for over two hundread years until the United States Navy showed up and blew up a few ship as 'developed'. You can't say England becuase it's 90 miles away form France and was invaded like 60 billion time
And that's a medieval era map 'nuff said


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:18 pm 
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dante715 wrote:
Verilidaine wrote:
I don't want to reply to the whole post, but as for the trading, I don't think that's necessarily true. There are plenty of island nations that have developed without trading with the rest of the world (say, Japan).


No, the world does not work that way, Japan was not developed unless you count being in the middle ages for over two hundread years until the United States Navy showed up and blew up a few ship as 'developed'. You can't say England becuase it's 90 miles away form France and was invaded like 60 billion time
And that's a medieval era map 'nuff said


...But Twokinds is not to the point in its timeline where anyone is going to be going anywhere and blowing anything up (not with the technology you're using here to indicate being "not advanced.") Japan was developed for its time at a few points in history, just not the part you're thinking of. I'm not saying that the Basitin islands are completely isolated, they obviously have traffic to and from the rest of the world. However, they could sustain themselves without trade, and, I suspect, largely do.

Also, as for it being a medieval era map 'nuff said...you're saying the map is inaccurate because these people don't have modern technology? I'm inclined to believe that we can trust that map...partially just because there are things like dragons and magic in this world.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:56 pm 
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YAY! Things are starting to heat up, and i like the look of natani in the 3rd last panel :D good work tom keep it up :D


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:05 am 
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Verilidaine wrote:
Also, as for it being a medieval era map 'nuff said...you're saying the map is inaccurate because these people don't have modern technology? I'm inclined to believe that we can trust that map...partially just because there are things like dragons and magic in this world.


No, I'm saying there inaccurate becuase 98% of people (at least) can't (or shouldn't) read/write and those that do (my guess Monks) are too busy writing Bibles.


Also it's geology is wroing becuase a Timber, a Mediterranean and a topic jungle (corrent me if I'm wrong, but that's what the Human/Wolf, Basitin, and Tiger lands are right?) in the same parallel line, Timber is 60 parallel, Mediterranean is 40 and Topic is 10. give or take. So unless that have that map sideways...


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:08 am 
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dante715 wrote:
Verilidaine wrote:
Also, as for it being a medieval era map 'nuff said...you're saying the map is inaccurate because these people don't have modern technology? I'm inclined to believe that we can trust that map...partially just because there are things like dragons and magic in this world.


No, I'm saying there inaccurate becuase 98% of people (at least) can't (or shouldn't) read/write and those that do (my guess Monks) are too busy writing Bibles.


Also it's geology is wroing becuase a Timber, a Mediterranean and a topic jungle (corrent me if I'm wrong, but that's what the Human/Wolf, Basitin, and Tiger lands are right?) in the same parallel line, Timber is 60 parallel, Mediterranean is 40 and Topic is 10. give or take. So unless that have that map sideways...

Or the planet's axis is different from ours. ;)

Never forget, we can draw parallels, but we can't make exact conclusions. For instance, in fantasy, literacy is often close to universal. In the fantasy genre, it's somewhat rare to find someone who can't read or write, regardless of the reality of Europe's Middle Ages. When it happens, it's generally something that's made a point in the story. While hard sci-fi is popular, hard medieval work is much less so. We like fantasy, with magic, and dragons, and talking animal people, and no horrifying diseases. Besides, the only character in TwoKinds that we know is illiterate is Natani. Pretty much everybody else has demonstrated the ability to read and write, often in languages which are not their native tongue.

In addition, the map they were looking at was one of the charts from Eric's ship. You can bet your boots that the ship's charts are going to be accurate.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:53 am 
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avwolf wrote:
Or the planet's axis is different from ours. ;)

Never forget, we can draw parallels, but we can't make exact conclusions. For instance, in fantasy, literacy is often close to universal. In the fantasy genre, it's somewhat rare to find someone who can't read or write, regardless of the reality of Europe's Middle Ages. When it happens, it's generally something that's made a point in the story. While hard sci-fi is popular, hard medieval work is much less so. We like fantasy, with magic, and dragons, and talking animal people, and no horrifying diseases. Besides, the only character in TwoKinds that we know is illiterate is Natani. Pretty much everybody else has demonstrated the ability to read and write, often in languages which are not their native tongue.

In addition, the map they were looking at was one of the charts from Eric's ship. You can bet your boots that the ship's charts are going to be accurate.


Like the 45th parallel? </bad_joke>

Also, Flora can't read, and I don't think she can speak Basitin either... Not when she specifically points out that Trace shifted to the Basitin language, so she seems to be just like Natani in terms of language skills.

I would go as far to say that of the three girls (I'm ignoring Mika(sp?)) only Kathryn can read, and none of the Keidran can speak a different language...

Thus Tom's probably trying to make a point here, considering that as you say, literacy does seem to be universal in fantasy stories.

Alternatively, I'm reading too deeply into this.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:56 am 
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Flora can both understand and speak the human language, but she can not read.
Natani can neither understand nor speak the human language, or read it obviously.
Kathrin probably can't read all too well, as the books Eric gives her don't seem to be very litterate. But that's just what i think.


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