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I won't point fingers or name names, I'm sure that will be done for me, sooner or later. It has been made clear that there is at least a small minority of furries who claim to 'hate humans' and who may even think of themselves as other than human.

I'm not of this subset, but I think it's worth our time as a forum to investigate and attempt to understand this subset, so that undue misunderstandings do not arise.

So, discussion points.

Where is the line between 'furry' and 'not-furry'?
Is it plausible to be prejudiced against one's own race?
Human body, inhuman soul?
Is humanity as a whole at fault for the ills of the world?
Are we as furries (that'd be myself and other furries, not necessarily the totality of this forum) obligated in some fashion to 'fix' humanity?

EDIT : Definitions added. Please reference thisfor our working definition of what is and isn't "furry".

Before anyone starts bashing crap without knowing about anything, i'd like to point out:

Therianthrope: Person who believe it's soul/spirit is animal and not human, these persons act like normal people like anyone here, this have nothing to do with being a furry or not.

My apologies. I didn't mean to drag therianthropes, or otherkin, or anyone else into the spotlight. Although, given the fuzzy barriers and frequent overlap, it's sort of inevitable. I would like any such references to be civil and considered.

It's yet another form of escapism. They use their furryness, which they may or may not actually in the case of these people, as a way to distance themselves from the rest of the population that they feel are foolish or have in some way abused them, even though in truth they are yet another part of it. It's not really furry specific, many of the transhumanal subcultures share elements like this, like the people who pretend or think they are vampires.

Alright, it seems to me that 'escapism' is part of the core to one interpretation of this conundrum.

But I've been repeatedly accused of escapism in a number of ways. World of Warcraft is an escapist fantasy, for many. Amtgard is about as Escapist as you can get without giving up civilization.

But in my experience, the vast majority of those who could be termed 'escapist' have no particular grudge against humanity in general.

So why only transhuman groups?

It was just an example, pointing out that it wasn't a furry only things, as I'm tired of people assuming that one thing like that occurs only to 1 group of people, like the snot nosed brat types being gaming only.


Escapism isn't strictly an antipopulation thing. Escapism refers to, in some way, trying to avoid the norm of real life, the things that occur in it. And those against the way most people are don't necessarily claim to be something that differs themselves from the main group, it would just mean they do something to avoid that main group, like, to use your example, loose themselves in WoW.

Where is the line between 'furry' and 'not-furry'?
Differs for each person.

Is it plausible to be prejudiced against one's own race?
Of course.

Human body, inhuman soul?
Utter bollocks, even assuming souls are real. If they do, odds are there's some sort of higher power. Odds are some higher power has enough power to prevent these sort of mix-ups, and if they are inhuman soul w/ human body they were the butt-end of a joke. If souls don't exist, you see the flaw in this already. Of course, this is a false dilemma. This is just a very quick simplification.

Is humanity as a whole at fault for the ills of the world?
No, and those who attempt to argue this, as Wynni said, are ignorant to Nature's nature. Rape? Animal kingdom's got it [Interspecies, no less]. Pollution? Animal Kingdom's got it. Murder? See prior two responses.

Are we as furries (that'd be myself and other furries, not necessarily the totality of this forum) obligated in some fashion to 'fix' humanity?
No, too much trouble is already started by people trying to tell other groups what's best for them.

Keep in mind, I'm playing devil's advocate from here on out, and will just as often ask a leading question as give an answer. That said...

Escapists can be loosely grouped into two categories. One side, 'hobby' escapists. D&D players, WoW players, Amtgarders, SCAdians. People who do something pretty regularly that forces/allows them to be someone else for a while, or to be somewhere else.

On the other side, there are 'lifestyle' escapists. Some Gorean BDSM advocates would fall into this group, but it's a rough place to group therianthropes, otherkin, religious extremists, the irrevocably naive... people who spend every hour of every day living in a state that's not quite the same as the rest of 'humanity'.

I'm not going to try to make either group out to be villains, this is just how I see them, loosely grouped.

Which side do furries, loosely, fit into?

Ok now, therianthropes and otherkins consider themselves as humans but with a soul/spirit that isn't, because they believe that doesn't make them believe that they are out of humanity or better than it. Don't spread [censored] around and start myths on therians and otherkins please.

Don't hate humans. Hate stupid people. And why do most furries hate humans? Too much crack, plain and simple.

And i thought id throw this in for the sake of it.



And by furry what are we talking about. A person who acts like an animal and dresses up like one, like a mascot.

Again, differs for each person.

There are some "furries" that are basically just "When I go to certain sites I have a fursona," [some furries don't even have those]. They are about the same as a forumite claiming to be a Sci-Fi / Fantasy character, race, etc.

Then there are those that, in real life, try to pass themselves off as something such as a wolf in human body. These range from slightly lulzy, to very disturbing.

You have a problem with this, but none at all with the Gorean's who feel all women have a subconscious desire to be brutally dominated?

Where is the line between 'furry' and 'not-furry'?
No clue, don't really care. I guess you could say someone who hates furries likely isn't a furry.

Is it plausible to be prejudiced against one's own race?
Well...definitively, there's nothing saying it's *not* possible. But as a generally accepted fact, prejudice never really applies to the person being prejudice. So, technically is it possible? I guess so. In actual practice, I'd say it would be more along the lines of disagreement resulting from separating yourself from your own race for whatever reason.

Human body, inhuman soul?
Soon as someone feels like proving to me that either of those things exist, we can pursue that question further.

Is humanity as a whole at fault for the ills of the world?
The world produced humanity, unless you're a creationist (in that case, please pretend I don't exist, because you will hate me.) So ultimately, no, humans are not the reason for the world's ills - they're just doing what it is they do, like every other creature on earth.

Are we as furries (that'd be myself and other furries, not necessarily the totality of this forum) obligated in some fashion to 'fix' humanity?
Well I certainly hope you furries aren't lazy [censored] who feel like forsaking your home and planet just because non-furries don't act in accordance to your views. You're not obligated to fix anything, nobody on earth is "obligated". But if you want your life to have any value at all, and if you want any degree of respect from your fellow earthly inhabitants, you damn well better not let your planet and the lives of those within it fall by the wayside.

Ignoring problems just because other people created them is arguably one of the most deadly, irresponsible and heinous acts possible to commit.

Graham, I think I like you. ^_^

The major question here, then, becomes whether this subset of furries, or broader, this cross section subset of transhuman groups, has warranted defining itself as something other than human.




I'm not attempting in any way to spread [censored] or start myths. If anything, I'd like myths to be dispelled and better understanding to follow from there.

In that vein, would you mind defining and explaining each, therians and otherkins?



So furries are a borderline group, with some members falling into each category. It follows, then that we need to split our discussion to two separate groups of furries.

In the red corner, we have fursona types, those who take furry as a casual thing. In the blue corner, those who see furry as a lifestyle.

In which group can we find the group we started off talking about, the 'human hating' subset?