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I'm throwing in my two cents finally. :o

I don't like it when people use lax grammar on forums. There is no excuse for it. Games, chat rooms, IMs are all fast paced and usually kept close to real time, so they sometimes require abbreviated grammar.

The one time that I am a real stickler for it is the tech board. If you're trying to get tech help, a bunch of crappy grammar is not going to help your case. It irritates me to death when someone says something like "my comp crashs all the time why" and expects a good answer.

That's about the way I see it. If you're not going to put any effort into what you write, I'm not going to put any effort into reading it.

It slightly pisses me off too I mean they have horrible grammar to begin with but then when they show it they are not even corrected and are allowed to pass up to a higher grade level it amazes me how useless our schooling system is now I mean grown adults cant even speak a proper sentence or use correct punctuation in writing

you know what i mean?



Wow, that was hard... I mean, how telling is it, when it's difficult for someone to use inproper grammar? :?

Anyways, there's my idiocy for the morning.

*improper

XD Don't italicize your typos!

God dang it, that one was unintentional... I blame my keyboard. Not only does its wireless signal blow donkey turds (dunno where that one came from, mate...), but half of the keys have fallen off, and I did a really shoddy job putting them back on. So, I now have an utterly horribile keyboard. Awesome, eh?

Oh, and yeah, Wynni, I was just being an idiot. The only thing I would say that is 'fail' about it is the aforementioned "inproper" grammar.

It's not too much of an issue to me, even being a perfectionist AND a computer programmer to boot. What I do to cope is to post in the predominant style that is currently used by the majority. Ergo, blending in. I learnt that after being warned once in a forum a long long time ago that different people have different expectations. It's nice to demonstrate some kind of sentience in your forum posts though.

What really bites me is not the small little typos- it's the apparent attitude in which they were posted. I don't mind the occasional flaming and trolling
so long they're done with tact and arguing about the subject rather then about the poster. Some of the funniest posts I have ever seen where unarguably troll posts, but executed with such grace they became valid opinions all of their own.

What does irritate me is meaningless/aggressive content. Stuff like a single "lol" is a waste of space, but tolerable in my books. The real kicker are posts that either insult the intelligence of the target and anyone else reading it. I am reminded of TimeCube when typing this - the writer seems out of reality, in attention to using fonts that are too big.

Maybe I'm too obsessed with the efficiency (people have brains, so they should use them, right?), being slightly workaholic and stuff...

Actually, giving up any language due to inconsistances is pretty much pointless.

Each and every single person has their own unique vocabulary, writing style, and speaking mannerism. This is caused by the way the person learned language.

An example of this is how in certian areas "caught" and "cot" are prouncounced the same, while in other areas they are prounounced differently.

Another example is, of course, UK english vs. US english vs. Aussie english. They really are seperate languages in their own right, and at some point in the future they probably will be.

But giving up english due to other errors is an interesting line of debate.

As you can see from my absolute butchering of "prounounced," the english language is not spelled as it is spoken. Most (and by most, I mean every single one I know of) languages use phonetic spelling, but english has zany irregulars that throw non-native speakers off.

Also, the irregular verbs themselves make absolutely no sense whatsoever. How is "I eat" transformed into "I ate?" How can "You go" become "You went?" And the tricky thing is that most of the irregulars are common verbs.

My solution: force everyone to learn english. IN AMERICA!

OK. I am really sorry but the fact that all of you are attacking a dialect like this is really annoying me. The purpose of language is to transfer information from one person to the other. As long as the receiving person easily understands this expression of knowledge then that use of language was a success. I admit and am proud that I use abbreviations and "1337 speech" when I am using AIM and other instant messaging tools. It saves time and these uses often gain connotations of their own. Some of you say that you can type normal sentences very quickly and so it wouldn't save you time. However this is ridiculous because using abbreviations reduces the time it takes to type by a percent so no matter how fast you can type now if you typed using abbreviations it would be even faster.

The origins of the dialect are irrelevant, the English language originated from both Germanic languages and the French. This does not mean that the Germans or the French have any especial call to say how English should be spoken. Languages change over time as the needs of society change them. The purpose of all the fancy punctuation and capitalization in English is so that the reader can better understand what the author is saying. However who really speaks in perfect sentences and with perfect grammar(except politicians and speech writers). The reason is because if what is spoken is misunderstood the listener can easily prompt the speaker to clarify what they said. The same goes for forums and to a greater extent instant messaging tools. The reader can easily ask the author to explain what they said which makes the importance of proper grammar and spelling less important than if it were, say in a book. In a book the reader has no ability to ask for clarification from the author so it is very important that the author is understandable. Not using proper grammar is not "abandoning English". Instead they are just using a different form of English no better or worse than the type you are using. The world "lol" might have originated to mean "laugh out loud" or whatever it did, but now it no longer strictly means this. Instead it has gained connotations created from its use.

You are all complaining about how horrible this is for the future. What effect will it really have? If people begin using abbreviations from the internet in day to day speech how will this adversely effect humanity? Just as you guys often admit this really sounds like elitism to me. You think that your way of doing something is inherently better and so that any change from your believed static perfect is perceived as a threat. Language is a continuously changing tool and in the end the "correct" way of speaking is defined by the speakers and not by some abstract principles preached upon them by others. If you went back just a couple thousands years you'd find true "old English" and chances are you wouldn't be able to understand it. It has its own alphabet and is so significantly different from English it is effectively a separate thing. Change in language is not something you should be afraid of, it is something you should welcome and embrace as a new and better way of expressing ourselves in a changing world. Really your attacks remind me of arguments long ago by the aristocracy of how icky the peasantry were and how terrible it would be if they were running things.

In the end the really important thing is only that you understand what the author is saying. If you cannot then either you are not sufficiently versed in their dialect or they really are being difficult to understand. If the former just try to gain a better grasp of the dialect through a third party or by asking the author. If the problem is the latter then just ask the author to be more clear. In some ways you all have a point in that if they author can't be understood then they fail. However your grouping all of internet speak including together and saying that they are all the same thing. You can use internet speak and still be totally coherent, just like you can use normal writing and be totally incoherent (like I'm sure some of this post is). Changing language improves it, it does not "butcher it".

In short there is nothing wrong with using internet speak as long as its understandable. The world is not going to end because people use abbreviations. Using abbreviations is not "abandoning English". If anything your failure to acknowledge changes in English is you abandoning English. Changes in a language does not mean your "butchering" it. Language is not static. Get over it.

http://camba.ucsd.edu/files/misc/ll/grammar_puss.html

PS. To the person above me I doubt that American English will every become a separate language from Standard English because globalization and improved communication seems to be removing the barriers which led to the divergence of dialects causing them to form different languages.

I'm just a wee bit of an oxymoron, when it comes to this subject. My spoken language is peppered with jargon, from 'aggro-trol' (Yes, that's spelled correctly. Not troll, but abbreviation of 'control'.) and '3/5 curve' to 'spar-sword' and 'fair monkey'. On the other hand, I can't bring myself to use chatspeak, textspeak or l33t, save as a joke. I use outdated phrases, which makes perfect sense, as I learned much of my early lessons in English at the hands of Asimov, Heinlein, and McCaffery. What you learn young will stick with you for a long, long time. I'd suggest, to at least attempt to 'fix' the growing disregard for proper English, that young children not be given the option of text messaging. Although honestly, I can't come up with a way to isolate someone from chatrooms, myspace, facebook, text messaging, and the like. Not long enough to do any good, at least. I grew up in the days of Prodigy and Zork. I learned English, devoured it because everything that interested me, from Pern to Dungeons and Dragons, revolved around a thorough understanding of the English language. And I grew up with English, and haven't lost my appreciation for a well-turned phrase or an ambitious attempt at alliteration. The particulars of precise grammar may not be necessary for your average forum, but if you couldn't pass your post by a freshman English teacher without undue incident... you might want to start over.