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How about those FPS games eh? And RPGs? Yeah- fun stuff- fun stuff... But as awesome as TF2 is, and how awesome Final Fantasy whatever was or is, I notice it keeps getting more boring as it goes. Ok- a new FPS comes out like Resistance or Gears of War - freakn sweet! Man- that sure was fun- but- now that i beat the game, there's no replay value- if i want to play online- i play a game that I like more for online play- like TF2. So all that is kinda boring- I want something that will fill my days with excitement!

So I pick up a new RPG! Yeah! Awesome storyline with cool super sweet 3D cut scenes- but very quickly i feel like im reaching a point where they say "Do this? Yes? No? - What do you mean no? You sure you didnt mean YES?! YOU BETTER SAY YES! WE JUST PUT NO IN THERE AS A WAY OF MAKING IT LOOK LIKE YOU HAVE A CHOICE!"

And so now im watching a movie with random battles between scenes... Well naturally after playing through that- i dont want to punish myself with having to do all that over again! So- no replay value. Maybe THAT is what I want! REPLAY VALUE! ALRIGHT! I know what to do now! Find a game i can play for MONTHS!

Enter the MMORPGS! Yeeeeah! So - i get started- im doing ok- take that rabbits! Oh! Real people! "Hail fellow adventures! Shall we go on a quest!?" sweet- questing! Friends! Making money! getting loot! Oh- i have to work this weekend- I guess I cant play that weekend- but we can play next weekend right? Cool...

Log in- and they are all 5 levels higher, huh- well- I can still kinda mooche off of them right? Get my XP way up there! YEAH! ... What? If i join you- not only will you get less XP - but I would get even less of the less XP... we cant play with each other anymore... Ok, i'll just- find new friends... my own level. Whoa- these kids are crazy- NO! dont pull that! its SUPER TOUGH! It will kill us all! ...

Months later... I am now MAXIMUM LEVEL! I can go anywhere! Except the special areas for people who have hit max level- because i need 6 people at max level to not die there. Now all i can do is hunt for the best items- maybe kill other people my level... I cant play with my new friends that got the game- i guess- if i want to i have to make a new character... and spend months doing generally the same thing- all over again...

Now this is boring... What else is there? I can keep buying the new games for better graphics and new stories (not always better- not always worse) but id really like a game that has the long term playability of an MMO, with the action and excitement of a FPS, without the pains of not being able to play with those you want to be with and to be able to create a unique "hero".

Unfortunately, this game doesnt exist. We have games like Neverwinter Nights that let us create stuff and make a cool world and such- but we were still stuck in a non-living world with a number over our heads saying who we can play with. We have MMOs with amazing worlds that are fun just to run around in or fly around in- but get nothing for doing so. We have games with combat systems that keep us on our toes without constantly blowing us away (Oblivion's combat system was close to top notch for melee fighting and ranged combat) and even an old game like Ultima Online said "LEVELS!? WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS IS!? FINAL FANTASY??!?!" using a skill based system that- original - made people rather equal from start to finish, making pure skill, tactics, and equipment vital to being a great character in their world. All of that comes with practice- not killing creatures mindlessly gaining points that make you better than everyone. The reason someones equipment makes them better- is because they both had the luck and took the time to obtain it, but their equipment can never make them "invincible". That cuts out the whole not being able to play with your friends because they have more or less time to play than you. It also means that generally everyone can feel good about their customized character- and even better when working together as a group using their strengths to overcome the truly nasty creatures that inhabit the game.

Levels are find for games with just you - doing your things- but constantly loosing and gaining XP making it impossible to play with your friends unless you are all within a certain level range... So why do we still use them? Why do developers keep saying "NEW INNOVATIVE COMBAT!" and it turns out it is the same thing since Everquest and Diablo?

So, is someone out there trying to change this? Are we going to start seeing a people fighting to be free of the evil Levels? some. There are a few MMOs that say they are not going to be Level based- Darkfall says they are going skill based- if its true- it might be something to look for- but it also might not have that wondrous world feel. Just have to wait and find out...

Btw- im not saying games suck - i love games- but once you play through once- at most twice- most of us get sick of it and have to go buy other games to fill the void the other one left behind- and worse of all- generally you only get 2-10 games max per year that are "worth" playing.

As it turns out, you can still complete quests with people that are a higher level than you and still catch up to whatever they're doing. You know, at the maximum level, most people would find a good guild to join and do all those big dungeons. The people who can't find guilds that raid are usually people who fail at the game and no one wants to party with them. And, when my friends decided to start playing the game with me I did everything I could to help them level up by running them through dungeons appropriate for their level and helping them with difficult quests.

Ummmm.... what?

This is why I play Classic Doom. I'm not exactly "Oooh, graphics!" about games. Doom is simple, and you go through it so fast that you hardly ever remember where a monster is hiding the next time you play, and there's always the possibility of getting killed no matter how many times you play. Granted, this very likely works for about 2.1 percent of the population, but I'm just saying that you can't play new games all the time expecting new stuff. Repitition is inevitable.

On a side note, Halo Wars looks like it's going to be fun. :)

I'm all for games pushing the envelope with better graphics, as long as you're able to keep incorporating more innovative gameplay. Crysis definitely is a shining example of that, I think. Rather than proximity being the defining factor as to whether an enemy detects you, it's based off of how much noise you generate and how well covered you are by foliage/buildings/etc. If you can't see them, they can't see you.

And the graphics are just wonderful. Even if you try to swim out of range of the map, a hulking shark starts to circle around you the further you abandon the shoreline until the thing strikes, and that scared the [censored] out of me.

Games like Halo, Unreal Tournament, and World of Warcraft aren't really doing that in the same light. They concentrate more, it seems, on tweaking weapons a bit and then bolstering graphics (minus WoW). Leaves a lot to be desired.

I might have a bit more to say once Assassin's Creed finishes downloading (28%), but until then I'm quite satisfied with the games I have.

Civilization III.
There.
Problem solved.

Fun game, finished it a few months ago, though after getting everything unlocked and completing it the replay was kinda gone. Still a good one to try out though!

As for games with levels...I don't mind levels so much as the people who like to hassle ya about it calling you a noob just cause their able to play the game for hours on end while you're off at work making a living. I'd kinda like to see levels phased out and games get more skill based, though I tend to play a lot of racing games anyways, kinda like em cause you have to know how to tune your vehicle and how it handles. :grin:

Well, really thats true of anything.

I mean if you think about everyones beloved movies unless they are something that really lights a fire in you, you watch it what? maybe 3 times if think its pretty good?

What about books? I've loved some good books over the ages but I don't read the same one over and over again throughout the year.

My point is that no medium is infinitely reuseable in terms of entertainment, the best you can hope for is a gem that'll last you more than the 20 gameplay hours it advertises on the box. Frankly if you got sucked into one game and never left it, the gaming industry on the whole would be out of jobs and that would not rock. :(

Well put. :)

Looking back on my ten year old games, I've come to find that the ones I still play don't actually have a plot or the plot isn't crucial to the game. Such examples include Civilization: Call to Power, Star Wars: Rebellion, Star Wars: X-wing vs. TIE Fighter, and X3: Reunion (Not ten years old, but still old enough)

Same pretty much goes for doom. Id tried to make a story, but it was just a cover-up for all the awesome demon-shooting.

Pick up some board games :P
I just got Arkham Horror and I've played it quite a bit, different every time, and a lot of fun. Of course, if there aren't any friends readily available (or willing) to go to your house, there are a couple really good videogames that keep going n going n going n going. Oblivion lasts a good long time.
Also, I picked up The World Ends With You a long while ago. I beat it in maybe 20-30 hours, and I have 60 hours logged in the game. So fun.
Me, all the story based games I play I have a lot of fun playing. The one above is a good example, and most survival horrors. I'm playing through Eternal Darkness for the second time, I'll be going a third time and after that a fourth. Maybe I just know how to pick 'em, or maybe its just my tastes...
But it doesn't get much better than the crazyness in TF2.

I think the PvE part of Guild Wars did a fine job with removing the level problem, though it also made me wonder why it existed in the first place, since you could reach max level in a week. There's also this balance with the equipments, which made everyone almost completely equal, and differing only by in-game/player skills.

...but then, because you're supposed to be completely equal to the enemies you face, it takes the fun out of... being superior to others by the character itself, 'cause there's no "my char is better than yours." I think many people would prefer the big level system over a complete lack of one, so whatever.


I don't know if any of the games from the current genre will ever have innovative gameplay. All the "great games" nowadays are just improvements over older ones, no?

They're actually going to be updating the graphics engine when Wrath of the Lich King comes out. At least in Northrend and it's going to look beautiful.

I dunno, man. I've played from start to finish Earthbound more than 80 times. I love that game so much. In fact, I'm gonna play it again right now.

First off- Arkham Horror is an awesome board game.

Second - i dont want something that i can log infinite time into and be happy with it- but i think something i spend 10-15 dollars per month ontop of buying the game itself should last more than a couple months.

Baldur's Gate 2 said it had over 250 hours of game play - over a looong period of time- i certainly did do nearly everything - and logged over 200 hours into that game (as far as gaming goes- it was time well spent- wonderful game) I did play through it a second time as a different class- and it was still fun - but i skipped all the missions i knew were kinda dead ends or super difficult. In the end- it definitely lived up to providing mmaaaany hours of entertainment.

I loved Crysis, great graphics and action - decent story. But it's multiplayer was a bit-- hackers aside, sluggish? And it wasnt cool for a guy to get that personal nuke gun used to destroy your defensive target- but instead uses it to repeatedly kill you and everyone around you... Still - i wanted more. It was great for what it was- but thats it- and that was enough for me.

Its these games that just copy each other over and over - WoW is just like Everquest 2 which is the same as 1 and Vanguard is great but it looks like Everquest 2 with better graphics and flying mounts. The best MMO i ever played was Ultima online- and people STILL play UO! Lots of em! The ol' 2D version! Because its still fun - except that I sucked at the combat...