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 Post subject: How many types of/What are the types of Keidran there?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:51 pm 
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Yeah, I've been wondering about this subject for a while.
Tom's only revealed Tiger Keidran,Fox Keidran,Dog Keidran and that Snow Leopard Keidran really early in the comic that we never saw again.
I wanna know.

Liike if any mammal is a Keidran or just a specific type.
Avians?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:44 pm 
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I'm pretty sure there's a lot. Possibly all the types of Felines and Canines.

I'm still trying to figure out what Basitians are ._.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:22 pm 
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Kitten wrote:
I'm pretty sure there's a lot. Possibly all the types of Felines and Canines.

I'm still trying to figure out what Basitians are ._.


Basitians are semi-canine but they are really their own race and not anthropomorphic animals of some kind.

I don't think there are lots - I think theres the most well known spots and stripes and designs so, brown and grey wolves, maybe black wolves, standard dogs (Labs, german shepards, etc) but not Poodles and Pit bulls. maybe Lions, Tigers of course, spotted cats like leopards, jaguars and cheetahs may all be in the same group, and then there are the cross breeds like Kat.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:04 am 
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Quote:
and then there are the cross breads like Kat.


**teasing** Wonder? or Iron kids? maybe Sunbeam? :P

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
So, any keidran can cross with any other? They were going to marry Flora to a wolf keidran . . . what would the offspring be like? Hyenas? (hyenas have both canid and feline characteristics).


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:45 am 
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Wynni wrote:
Quote:
and then there are the cross breads like Kat.


**teasing** Wonder? or Iron kids? maybe Sunbeam? :P

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
So, any keidran can cross with any other? They were going to marry Flora to a wolf keidran . . . what would the offspring be like? Hyenas? (hyenas have both canid and feline characteristics).

SPELL CHECK DOESN'T FIX WORDS THAT ARE WORDS! =_= Mmmm Bread...

Anyways - Yes- they can cross breed with each other even if one is cat and the other dog, they are all the same race like black and white humans.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:18 am 
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Sage wrote:
Wynni wrote:
Quote:
and then there are the cross breads like Kat.


**teasing** Wonder? or Iron kids? maybe Sunbeam? :P

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
So, any keidran can cross with any other? They were going to marry Flora to a wolf keidran . . . what would the offspring be like? Hyenas? (hyenas have both canid and feline characteristics).

SPELL CHECK DOESN'T FIX WORDS THAT ARE WORDS! =_= Mmmm Bread...

Anyways - Yes- they can cross breed with each other even if one is cat and the other dog, they are all the same race like black and white humans.

So um, when are we going to see a who-knows-how-many-generation crossbreed, that pretty much has a mix of just about every subspecies in it? I would think that, as long as crossbreeds like your talking are able to reproduce themselves, you would end up with quite a few Keidran of very mixed heritage.


-RobbieThe1st


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:00 pm 
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I've yet to figure out how to get the spell check to work on these things (yes, I spell check the old fashioned way :P ). Do you type first in a word program, and then paste?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:11 pm 
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Wynni wrote:
I've yet to figure out how to get the spell check to work on these things (yes, I spell check the old fashioned way :P ). Do you type first in a word program, and then paste?

No I use firefox- it automatically spell checks while you type in Boxes like these forums and such.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:05 pm 
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Yay for Firefox!

I don't think there are any avian keidran. It wouldn't be practical.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:41 pm 
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Sage wrote:
Wynni wrote:
I've yet to figure out how to get the spell check to work on these things (yes, I spell check the old fashioned way :P ). Do you type first in a word program, and then paste?

No I use firefox- it automatically spell checks while you type in Boxes like these forums and such.

Eh, I've got one for IE that does something similar but, unfortunately, it has to be manually invoked. It was vogue some time ago for all the major OpenSource projects to add aspell functionality, and that's where Firefox gets it (not that I'm complaining, it's darn handy).

Keidran look to breed mostly true in terms of speciation though. We haven't seen anything that makes for an obvious "this was bred with this other thing," even even long ago. There are some hints, and selective breeding must be effective (re: Kat), but it looks to me like crossbreeding has the most influence on minor traits, and major traits breed mostly true out of one of the parent morphs (and I use that in the taxonomic sense).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:28 am 
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avwolf wrote:
Sage wrote:
Wynni wrote:
I've yet to figure out how to get the spell check to work on these things (yes, I spell check the old fashioned way :P ). Do you type first in a word program, and then paste?

No I use firefox- it automatically spell checks while you type in Boxes like these forums and such.

Eh, I've got one for IE that does something similar but, unfortunately, it has to be manually invoked. It was vogue some time ago for all the major OpenSource projects to add aspell functionality, and that's where Firefox gets it (not that I'm complaining, it's darn handy).

You should get/use Firefox, as you most likely already know, or, actually, anything other than IE is fine by me.

avwolf wrote:
Keidran look to breed mostly true in terms of speciation though. We haven't seen anything that makes for an obvious "this was bred with this other thing," even even long ago. There are some hints, and selective breeding must be effective (re: Kat), but it looks to me like crossbreeding has the most influence on minor traits, and major traits breed mostly true out of one of the parent morphs (and I use that in the taxonomic sense).

Yea... and, if Keidran are anything like house cats genetic-combination wise, I would think you would see all sorts of patterns and colors fur-wise, and very few purebred ones.
Of course, if all the cross-breeds got kicked out of the "official" tribes, then you should see a large town/city somewhere populated by all sorts of mixes.

Now, while this is most likely not true, one theory would be that the Basitin race were actually Keidran(or Keidran/Human, before the masks forbade it), and thats why they live on the island - they got kicked from the mainland. This would also account for the completely unique appearance, and their own unique traits, like resistance to poison for instance, as, after a while, traits such as that would end up appearing, due to the fact that Basitin without said trait wouldn't do well, or would simply die off(and the 60-year lifespan could be a mix of human/Keidran genes).
On that note, you could also surmise that the third mask came in later or simply waited, and then took over control of the mixed race, which then became Basitin.


-RobbieThe1st


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:52 am 
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RobbieThe1st wrote:
You should get/use Firefox, as you most likely already know, or, actually, anything other than IE is fine by me.

Meh, *shrugs* I prefer IE7, and have since it was beta (in certain ways, I actually preferred the beta). That's why I use it when I'm at home. The developer support in Firefox (read "Firebug") is several orders of magnitude in superiority, so that's what I use at work. Besides, it's generally trickier to get pages to work right in Firefox, so if I develop for it first, it's usually just minor tweaks to make it all work properly under IE. This is all beside the point, though...

RobbieThe1st wrote:
Now, while this is most likely not true, one theory would be that the Basitin race were actually Keidran(or Keidran/Human, before the masks forbade it), and thats why they live on the island - they got kicked from the mainland. This would also account for the completely unique appearance, and their own unique traits, like resistance to poison for instance, as, after a while, traits such as that would end up appearing, due to the fact that Basitin without said trait wouldn't do well, or would simply die off(and the 60-year lifespan could be a mix of human/Keidran genes).
On that note, you could also surmise that the third mask came in later or simply waited, and then took over control of the mixed race, which then became Basitin.

Well, without knowledge of the actual creation myths of the races, it's hard to say. One could consider that all three races are descended from a common ancestor. *shrug* Perhaps the Keidran are an offshoot of early Basitins that came to colonize the mainland and lost their resistances because they were no longer biologically pressured to maintain them. :P

Personally, I think that the physiological differences between the races argue against any of them being directly descended from any of the others. Since we've got demi-gods and magic, there's really no reason to hold up some sort of evolutionary process as their origin -- it's as likely that they were formed wholesale and complete from nothingness as they arrived in their present forms by minor mutations across a near infinity of time. I'd considered that each Mask had made a race of mortals and, to some extent at least, shepherded them, but Tom's discussion of the Masks recently puts that in doubt. Since no Mask truly lords over any specific race of mortals, but instead plays them all to their advantage whenever they're able, I must now hesitate before linking a Mask too strongly to the race.

Personally, I'm most curious as to what a Basitin/Keidran hybrid is like. All we know is that they're biologically feasible; simply extraordinarily rare, I suspect largely due to Basitin mores. This same wondering gets applied to Human/Keidran hybrids, but since the first natural one of those in many, many years is still to come, it's less pressing on my curiosity (especially since we know we'll see that one). How do disparate races combine genetically? Do we see an averaging of lifespans and maturities? Do their immune systems inherit from one side or the other, or hybridize? Would one have the "addiction" to following orders that the Basitins have, or the more freewheeling mind of most Keidran? (That's not a question that children of Keith and Natani would answer very well...Both the Basitin race and the Keidran Wolf morph would have a strongly inbred tendency to obey authority.) Since the differences in appearance between Keidran and Basitin are relatively minor, considering a crossbreed between those races allows us to focus further on biochemistry rather than morphology (for instance, the thread on Trace and Flora's presupposed children concentrated largely on what they'd look like).

And also, I once again ask, why does the forum believe that all of the Keidran we've seen are carnivorous? Are there no true omnivores or herbivores among the Keidran? If so, why?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:34 am 
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avwolf wrote:
RobbieThe1st wrote:
You should get/use Firefox, as you most likely already know, or, actually, anything other than IE is fine by me.

Meh, *shrugs* I prefer IE7, and have since it was beta (in certain ways, I actually preferred the beta). That's why I use it when I'm at home. The developer support in Firefox (read "Firebug") is several orders of magnitude in superiority, so that's what I use at work. Besides, it's generally trickier to get pages to work right in Firefox, so if I develop for it first, it's usually just minor tweaks to make it all work properly under IE. This is all beside the point, though...

RobbieThe1st wrote:
Now, while this is most likely not true, one theory would be that the Basitin race were actually Keidran(or Keidran/Human, before the masks forbade it), and thats why they live on the island - they got kicked from the mainland. This would also account for the completely unique appearance, and their own unique traits, like resistance to poison for instance, as, after a while, traits such as that would end up appearing, due to the fact that Basitin without said trait wouldn't do well, or would simply die off(and the 60-year lifespan could be a mix of human/Keidran genes).
On that note, you could also surmise that the third mask came in later or simply waited, and then took over control of the mixed race, which then became Basitin.

Well, without knowledge of the actual creation myths of the races, it's hard to say. One could consider that all three races are descended from a common ancestor. *shrug* Perhaps the Keidran are an offshoot of early Basitins that came to colonize the mainland and lost their resistances because they were no longer biologically pressured to maintain them. :P

Personally, I think that the physiological differences between the races argue against any of them being directly descended from any of the others. Since we've got demi-gods and magic, there's really no reason to hold up some sort of evolutionary process as their origin -- it's as likely that they were formed wholesale and complete from nothingness as they arrived in their present forms by minor mutations across a near infinity of time. I'd considered that each Mask had made a race of mortals and, to some extent at least, shepherded them, but Tom's discussion of the Masks recently puts that in doubt. Since no Mask truly lords over any specific race of mortals, but instead plays them all to their advantage whenever they're able, I must now hesitate before linking a Mask too strongly to the race.

Personally, I'm most curious as to what a Basitin/Keidran hybrid is like. All we know is that they're biologically feasible; simply extraordinarily rare, I suspect largely due to Basitin mores. This same wondering gets applied to Human/Keidran hybrids, but since the first natural one of those in many, many years is still to come, it's less pressing on my curiosity (especially since we know we'll see that one). How do disparate races combine genetically? Do we see an averaging of lifespans and maturities? Do their immune systems inherit from one side or the other, or hybridize? Would one have the "addiction" to following orders that the Basitins have, or the more freewheeling mind of most Keidran? (That's not a question that children of Keith and Natani would answer very well...Both the Basitin race and the Keidran Wolf morph would have a strongly inbred tendency to obey authority.) Since the differences in appearance between Keidran and Basitin are relatively minor, considering a crossbreed between those races allows us to focus further on biochemistry rather than morphology (for instance, the thread on Trace and Flora's presupposed children concentrated largely on what they'd look like).

And also, I once again ask, why does the forum believe that all of the Keidran we've seen are carnivorous? Are there no true omnivores or herbivores among the Keidran? If so, why?

Well, I would think that the hybrids, some of them at least, are going to be at The Orchard Valley...
Of course, most of the following orders/freewheeling stuff could easily be just community pressure - Just look at the diversity among humans. Now, that doesn't mean that Basitin minds and Keidran minds are alike - the Basitin could have an adaptation such that they aren't ruled by strong emotions so much, and perhaps are able to concentrate more under pressure, while Keidran are more easily overcome by very strong emotions.. As, with a lack of control by emotions, the Basitin people would appear much more ordered with the same amount of self-control.


-RobbieThe1st


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:11 pm 
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Well, there's the comic for this day:

April 21, 2004

Dunno if anybody pointed that one out yet.

Ta-da!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:43 pm 
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psycho_BUNNY wrote:
Well, there's the comic for this day:

April 21, 2004

Dunno if anybody pointed that one out yet.

Ta-da!

It seems that you may have pointed out something we shouldn't be seeing...since the page is no longer there...
O.o


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