Twokinds ARCHIVE Forums

After reading the Art of war by Sun Tzu, and then the Art of War by Niccolo Machiavelli, (Sun Tzu's is better, but Machiavelli makes some good points about management and political manuvering) I am beginning to wonder about the martial aspects of Twokinds. While normally I am very patient about waiting for clues in the comic, and then extrapolating on those, I have the feeling that a dissertation about the various styles of war in Twokinds will probably never be addressed in detail. I judge this based on the idea that 1) Twokinds is a relatively small scale story (Focused around a few characters, rather than the world around them) and 2) battle scenes are really, really hard to draw.

So what about it? How do the factions wage war in Twokinds? Are they at a renaissance level of sophistication? Or perhaps they are in the Late Medieval? And what techniques do they use?

I have my own theories, but I won’t say them now. Rather I will wait for the more qualified to answer. But is seems to be that Keidran are natural ambushers and the Basitan would be fantastic pikemen.

Of course if this never occurred to anyone, I would understand. It seems like somthing that does not warant much notice.

EDIT: Whoops, nearly made a triple post back there. oh is my face red... :oops:

It may be hard to imagine, but Sun Tzu's Art of War actually applies to normal real life events as well.

Also, in answer to your question, why do you suppose the Wolves were able to assassinate the human king? Why do humans fear going to war with both Keidran AND the Basitan? It all involves strategies, hence Art of War.

Also, if you enjoyed reading it, I would point you to a more traditional Chinese text: 36 Stratagems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-Six_Strategies


-Zaragor

Ooh, I book I've actually read... Cool.

I haven't actually seen Tom draw much in the way of walls or such, so I would expect any move by either side to be more of a raid than an actual battle. Raze a town here, ambush a caravan there, maybe behead the guv'nor. Then time for a wash up and have a couple pints. It's just that Tom hasn't shown anything more than a couple of soldiers standing around.

Right, since no one else has any ideas (or does not care to share them) and I need to over-analyze something in the interim before the next comic (it’s a failing, I know0 I’m going to start talking about ideas pertaining to the twokinds martial heritage as they enter my head. I expect mixed results.

So, I’m Beginning to think that the Keidran are quite similar to the Vikings of the 8th century. As far as tactics and technology goes.

No, seriously, this makes a little sense. Not all Vikings were berserkers. Mostly they were just guys with swords and beards.

From what we have seen, Keidran tactics seem to revolve around surprise and speed. Keidran themselves wear little clothing, armor or otherwise, and seem primarily interested in raiding as opposed to holding land. We have seen no Keidran cavalry either.

The Vikings actually tended to use tactics similar to this, albeit they used longboats to approach their targets. The Typical Viking stratagem was to sneak very close to a settlement, either by sailing up a river or on foot, and then attack the settlement quickly and disappear back to wherever they had came from. These tactics kept a large number of Vikings alive (They did not often come against organized or armed resistance. This was by design.) and produced quite a large amount resources (generously donated by the raided settlement)

Now I can’t help but notice the similarities to Keidran here. The Keidran may not have long boats, but they do live in a large forest. Forests, as you might understand are extremely difficult to invade with a traditional medieval army (the trees can really do a number on formations and cavalry) So even though he Keidran do not have a ocean between them and their raid victims, they have a place they can easily disappear into after a successful raid.

The raiding seems pretty advantageous now doesn’t it?

Now I don’t know how helpful this is to everyone else, but it gives me a general sort of idea on what it might mean when people talk about Keidran raiders. It sort of helps with the Viking parallel when most Keidran seem to be wielding spears/poleaxes (well, closer to a glaive really) and one handed swords (like a arming or broadsword)

And when I think about it, it might give a non-racist explanation as to why the humans might be miffed with the Keidran. Raiding like that can really get on someone’s nerves.

Humans: Standard Medieval-style fighting augmented with magic-wielding members supplying range attacks (kinda like in the anime Fullmetal Alchemist, but with swords)...

Keidran: Likely guerrilla warfare, which is best adapted to their wooded surroundings...

Basitin: With their extremes of temperament, I'm tempted to say that they likely have very regimented, Napoleonic-style maneuvers, which rapidly devolve into berserker warfare...
;3

That sounds like how combat would be. I like the Kedrain so much more then the bastin but my personality is completely towards that of a bastin T^T.

I haven't seen full metal alchemist, but your assestment is probably acurate. They are probably pretty big fans of heavy cavalry. Expecialy so when a mage can break a formation before the charge ( And then carnage ensues as the enemy infantry routs)



My setiments exactly, though I do think they have adapted to straight up raiding (sumurized by my Viking/Keidran post). I just get this feeling that they would be fantastic ambushers. I mean they don't even wear shoes, that's stealth and woodsman skills for ys.



First point, yes. Their best freind is most likely the pike square, much like the Swiss.

But I have to disagree with the second point. Beserker fighting almost never works in a battle, and is always defeated by a more organized force. Take the Gaelic and the Romans. The Galeic barbarians outnumbered the Romans nearly 5 to 1 at times and their style of combat was beserker combat (So much that some tribes were known to run into combat naked and weilding a big sword. That seems a little freudian when I think about it actually) Long story short though, the Romans anihalated them. And these wern't close battles either, it was most often a slaughter.

Actually, the Basitin might be more like the Romans. Well, at least like the Roman military, the Romans themselves were a little too hedonistic for the Basitan :lol:

Or perhap they are like the Spartans, I mean they like ALMOST EXACTLY how they did in sparta it would totally fit their pride and strength.

Well, they certainly have a spartan society (oohh, bad pun right there)Though Sparta is a good analogy actually, (Not to be confused with SPAAAAAARRTTAAAAA!!!! from 300 as you stated) Every Basitan is actually a citizen solider so it works very well.

But my only problem is though they we the toughest of the greeks, they still had the ever loving crap beaten out of them by the Romans. Seriously, the romans were that good. The only thing that stopped them was the collapse of their empire, and the only thing that stopped their combat stratagy was the advances in armor and mounted soliders.

well, i did mean the real spart not the THIS IS SPARTA sparta, but was the roman takeover after they annialated the persians which is my more important point, i know the 300 died but then i know they sent like 10,000 greeks to annialate them which they did. You got my point though their society is set up like the spartan society so i think they would use a combat similar but who knows maybe they use the ways of the jedi over both of those.

I know you meant the real Sparta, I was making a joke (Well, that and I wanted to type SPPPPAAAAATTTTAAAAAA!!!!)

The Roman Takeover was after the battle of Thermopoly (sp?) and I did admit that the Basitan are very close to Spartans. I just was pointing out that the Spartan tactics were a little outdated by the time of the Romans, and very outdated during the Medieval periods.

Oh and this is all just speculation. Mental masturbation if you will. To keep me interested until the next comic.

LOL
Yeah, that is why i am here to too, waiting for the next comic. Plus, i like a good conversation with a stranger. Also it that spelling error intentional because you can't say mast(rest of word i am afrid to say do to banning risk)

Well the spelling error was unintentional, I fixed it now though.

There is nothing wrong with that word. It's just another one of the oppressed words of english, like "gay" or "Molest"

Seriously, I can't even quote things that contain those words without getting looked at funny, let alone using them on their own

Ok i just don't want to risk being banned.

Spartans were certainly great, especially with 300 (with the support of 5000 other greeks) holding their own against an entire persian army that outnumbered them over 20 to 1.

Well, I would say the greatest force of all time would be the Macedonians under Alexander the Great. To actually be able to beat the Persian empire while it was at it's peak is something that will earn you respect. The Romans didn't have any great enemies.

The Romans were great, but imo, the Greek had a far better military compared to others at the time.

Gengis Khan could have conquered Europe, but due to the death of one of his family members, he was forced to abandon his campaign. A pity, seeing as they first beat the Chinese, then proceeded to beat up the Europeans.

Lots of fun warfares in history. xD

Oh, I'm currently writing a Sci-fi/fantasy story that will contain alot of battles. Being a fan of the Art of War and 36 stratagems, I will certainly include them in the story somehow xD Check out the story section. First chapter coming up this weekend!

-Zaragor