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The Spiffman is ranting about stuff!

( Note: this is just relieving stress. I am not assaulting anyone’s beliefs just pushy people, even if I do keep on using second person in my sentences.)

I’ve been getting a little bit pissed at Atheists and Young world creationists lately.

If you’ve been listening to me for any large amount of time, you might have noticed I put a lot of my faith (the trust kind) in science. This does not make me a atheist. In fact, I find my opinions constantly fluctuating between agnosticism and deism almost interchangeably. The more I look at some scientific studies, and some theories, the more I actually become convinced of the divine (Though not any specific Divine) Discoveries in quantum physics, some basic anthropology and the origin of our universe tend to instill these feeling.

I say this to get my general feelings on the issues clear for everyone.

What I’m pissed at is the general elitism that seems to be inherent in every person with a fanbase. Both Atheists and Young earth creationists have been rubbing me the wrong way recently. This is bad because I really don’t like to have negative predispositions to other people when I first meet them.

Let’s start with the Young Earth creationists. I know, I know, easy target, but I need to be fair to the Atheists. I know a lot of them are good people, but they need to stop this assault on science. I have had it up to here with the arguments of “evolution is just a theory” or “evolution can’t be right because it contradicts the Bible”. Seriously, do you think anyone except you gives a damn? Is the Idea that there may be an alternative process of the specifics of creation that you need to try and alter scientific records? (which, consequentially, is happening)

It doesn’t help in my case that it can be proven absolutely that Young earth creationism is wrong. That does not invalidate the existence of a God. It only explains that the earth is old.

I don’t care what Creationists think. I only care that they are trying to impress it on other people without any basis. And even more infuriating, who said you were right? What makes your God love you for trying to invalidate others? When you die, who will God find more without sin, the heathen who was a good man and sought to live a fair and honorable life, or the one who had the arrogance to presume that he knew Gods will and took it on himself to harass others?

Of course a loving God would probably Take them both, but he might be a wee bit disappointed in one of them.

Which brings me to my problem with Atheists.

I know being an Atheist is edgy and all, but they really need to stop this whole I don’t believe in God and therefore you shouldn’t. I know several atheists who are not like this, but the one who are always catch my attention.

Stop trying to prove that God does not exist with science! Stop it! You can’t do that at all. By it’s nature, the Divine is outside the natural order. It is beyond what we can see, taste feel, or even sense! The absence of something does not mean that it never existed. When someone “oh, since the earth wasn’t created in 6 days god must be false” makes my blood boil. What about other religions? What about allegory?
I notice a lot of Atheists attack religion. They make the statement that believing in imaginary things is delusional and dangerous. Well that would be all fine and dandy if religion wasn’t a huge part of nearly everyone on the planet. Sociologically, religion is of such astronomical importance it isn’t even funny. And considering that depression and sometimes suicide rates are higher in atheists, it could be said that not believing is dangerous.

The main thust of this rambling rant is that People need to stop impressing their views on others, and if they do, at least do some God damned research. There is a small sub point in there about not abusing science as well, but that’s a given.

This was the result of some bad youtube videos on both sides of the issue. So I apologize for any irrational parts here. This is truly just a rant.

You know what gets me about Athiests? How can they NOT believe in something that DOESN'T exist?

I agree with spiff about not soiling sience with out side impurites. I'm not one of those pushy athiests. Belive in what you wan't I won't try to prove anyone is wrong for beliving something. There are also religious people I've met who try to prove me wrong on the flipside.

@ luca I just never have belived in a higher power, I guess it's just like how you always grew up beliving in a greater power.

I'm an atheist too, but I see how many people want and sometimes need to believe, to hope that something bigger exists that helps them in their lives and gives them a higher purpose on earth. And because I understand this, I wouldn't want to talk people out of it, even if I could.

Although, I strongly believe that I need sleep. I am so going to bed now :P

Personally I think that people who have to force their beliefs (irrespective of what those beliefs happen to be) on those who disagree aren't as secure in their beliefs as they pretend to be.

Seriously--if you're convinced there's a God, why force a non-believer to agree with you? If there is a God, why not have faith that He'll take care of the non-believers himself? What harm does it do YOU if someone else doesn't believe?

Likewise, if you're convinced that there isn't, why waste your time trying to reach the people who think God IS real? Aren't you just trying to convert them to your "cult" of atheism--as if that were a religion instead of a rejection of it? What harm does it do YOU if someone else believes something you don't?

Everyone has their own points of view anyway--if you truly believe you're right, the most you can do is teach, not preach. Make your ideas available to others without forcing them on others--that makes them less likely to listen to you.

The best thing to do with people who feel they need to push their beliefs on other people is to just ignore them. There's no point in arguing with them regardless of what side they're on because they won't listen.

Go spiffman! i agree with you on that.

Great, i another religous thread...
ok, i am a Christian, yes, so yes, i disagree with you spiffman. not lookn for arguments, not trying to force my beliefs on anyone, blah blah blah, you know the rest. Just one thing that kinda pushes my buttons...



Its not the fact of who was more or less without or without sin, the heathen will, well..go to hell. there is no other way around that. Good deeds and living a "nice" life doesn't get you into heaven. The only way into heaven is through a relationship with Jesus Christ. And we as Christians KNOW God's Will because we have the Bible. And we are not trying to harass anyone with our beliefs , we are just trying to stand up for ours.

sorry, im not really one to argue or complain.

Faith, along with political views, is one thing people are least willing to change. Many people build their lives completely around faith, and to "attack" their faith is to question everything they've based their lives upon.

Ooh, I know what you mean by bad Youtube videos. I'm atheist, but watching some of those snarky, self-glorifying extremists rant and spit at the faithful just makes me want to slap them. Some of them actually have the cheek to say that religion forces itself on people, then do the same thing themselves.

You know what really gets some atheists? After death, if a faithful person is right, he goes to heaven. If a faithful person is wrong, he returns to dust. But if an atheist is right, he returns to dust, and if he's wrong, he goes to hell! But most atheists prefer to take that risk because they believe that they are better than that, or that being faithful due to threat of damnation is cowardly.

This thread is already starting to bash atheism enough, so I'll stop here.

Interesting point about atheists - most aren't atheists.

It's terminology. An real atheist is actually an evidentialist. By that manner, they don't say claim that there is evidence that no God exists. They claim that because of a lack of evidence, they don't believe any God exists. But, still being evidentialists, should they be presented with actual evidence in the existance of a God, they would have no problems believing.

Antitheists are people who claim there is no God for their own reasons. Not for lack of evidence, or for any reason other than their own subjective beliefs. Those are generally the people that go around spouting "It's obvious there's no God, you're stupid for believing in one." An true atheist would be more inclined to say something like "I see no proof that any God exists, and until I do, I'm not believing in something which according to every law of reality should not exist."

Just felt like clarifying that. A lot of people stereotype atheists based on the actions of antitheists, which of course is horribly unfair to atheists.

I don't take it upon myself to pretend like I know anything outside my perceptible reality. I mean, hey, I can't perceive it, why the hell should I pretend like I know anything about it. It's a logical fallacy, it's physically impossible to know anything about something you can't perceive. So I don't pretend. Is there a God? Maybe. I wouldn't dare personify him like a lot of devoutly religious people do. I don't think such an entity likes or dislikes people based on whether or not they acknowledge him. I don't even think it's fair to call it an entity, because that gives it a containment of sorts, which when referring to something like god is ridiculous.


I'm also an agnostic. Maybe, maybe not, I'll find out when I die. And if when I die there really is a personified God in the likeness of a old guy sitting on a throne who damns me to hell for not worshiping him, then screw that guy. I wouldn't want to be in the kingdom of such a jackass anyway.

You put a lot of faith in science? Since when? Did I miss it?

Not the people who TheSpiffman is talking about. My beliefs have changed quite a bit though and I don't disagree with your statement. I used to call myself a Christian, and I still am in a sense. Apparently, I'm what you'd call a Universalist now though.

What many people don't see is that the Bible actually tells them not to force their belief on others. I'd quote it but I don't remember where in the new testament it is. Of course, it also says there are no good men on this planet. I'm not really a fan of the King James version of the Bible. I prefer to read it in its original text when I can.

durham, you can't deny that there are zealots out there who will shove what they believe down people's throats.